Perseus and Slavko
"Our families are happy to have civil partnerships"
They first met over the Internet. They've been together for three years now and they live together in an apartment in the Thessaloniki area. Perseus is 41 years old and works in private employment, while Slavko is 37 years old and works as a DJ. The two decided that as soon as civil partnerships became law, they would become one of the first couples to marry!
How easy has it been for your love to be accepted by friends and family?
Perseus: I was one of the lucky ones in that my own people easily accepted the truth of my love for him. And the family environment has become even more friendly and indeed accepted.
Slavko: I coming out was not very difficult to do, but I mostly did it indirectly. I didn't directly say that I am gay, but I would say what people I liked and so we all understood. I was lucky, because, while I have mostly straight friends, nobody rejected me.
Was it easy for you to talk to your parents about your sexual orientation? Were you accepted without tensions?
Perseus: It was a conversation in which I opened myself up to them. It was easy because I knew they already understood, so I just confirmed what they already knew. They accepted me without being judgmental, and with the passage of time they've become more and more familiar and accepting of the idea.
Slavko: I have no parents. My sister, when she learned, struggled at first. She did not want to accept it. It took about a year and many discussions and now she is Okay with me and our relationship.
Have you each met each other's families?
Perseus: Yes, I have met Slavko's sister, but she does not seem open to a warm family relationship, so we tend to stay away.
Slavko: I know Perseus' parents and brother. The most stressful moment was when we went the first time to a family holiday meal with his parents and the family of his brother. I think it was mostly stressful, because, I do not speak Greek very well. Everything went well though.
Have you suffered from bullying from classmates or in other environments?
Perseus: In the school, there were some negative comments, but nothing very serious. In the army there were more intense verbal attacks because of my sexual orientation. Soon, I entered the crosshairs of the commanding officers who would impose punishments on me for minor things, which for others he turned a blind eye.
Slavko: At times I suffered bullying at school by classmates. What I remember most vividly is that they rejected other children, who were more effeminate, and they suffered much more intense bullying, such as offensive comments and exclusion from groups. Even I was in a very unhappy situation, I did not know how to react or be afraid.
Do you get "strange looks" when you are out and about and encounter people and places that not gay friendly?
Perseus: Sometimes people will give strange looks, but it's usually that they are startled or surprised and less strange looks because they are disapproving. As time goes on, I've noticed that these things are happening less and less.
Slavko: In Serbia, I felt more pressure. I was always more tense. Sometimes I feel the need to hug or to place my hand on Perseus' shoulder, but I don't do it. And in the working environment in Serbia this pressure was even more intense.. In Greece I feel more free, but again not everywhere. I feel more free in the city-center and in the shops where we go to have fun, but not in the neighborhoods far from the town-center. I do not remember many times when people looked at us intensely, but I do sometimes feel that Perseus avoids allowing us to openly appear as a couple, while on other occasions it's clearly no problem. I remember once we were both stared at in amazement at a cafe, where people broke plates as they expressed their irritation.
What do you feel you've won with the legalization of civil partnerships?
Perseus: We won the obvious: our relationship is recognized by the institutions of society. People recognize that I can love any person I choose, regardless of gender. The acceptance and inclusion of same-sex couples is an obvious distinction for which we are grateful. It solves many practical issues, as in the case of obtaining a residency permit for Slavko to live with me in Greece.
Slavko: Before this, when I would talk with my friends in Sweden, Switzerland and elsewhere, where there is marriage equality for same-sex couples, I felt that still lived in a "oppressed state" in a country which does not recognize the love of same-sex couples. Now I feel that we are together in the same "camp." Although equality is not fully complete without marriage and adoption rights, we have at least opened a door. We exist somewhere. Beyond the symbolic nature of our civil union, is the practical: the Civil Union Covenant solves many daily issues, which sooner or later would have faced, as all couples do in a long-term relationship.
What has changed in your daily life?
Perseus: It has stopped the restrictions on the right of Slavko to be with me. We can love each other normally now. It also adds confidence that if something happens to me, that Slavko will automatically be allowed to be beside me, without suffering cruelties and bureaucracies. And of course, very important to us is the psychological dimension, because I no longer feel that the state ignores us.
Slavko: What is important to me and why we chose to enter into a civil partnerships is the tangible problem of my stay. Now I will no longer need quarterly to change my residence and return to Serbia. And finally I will have the right to work here beside Perseus who has stable job. Fortunately, we do not have health problems, but if we did, now we can accompany each other in hospitals, where before we would have had to deal with bureaucracy to even visit each other in hospital.
Are you satisfied with civil partnership or would like it to soon be expanded to legalized marriage for same-sex couples and the possibility of adoption of children, as in other countries?
Perseus: This is an important first step forward, but it is just the beginning. Of course it must be established and then will come civil marriage with adaoption, as in most European countries. We want that as anything less is not equality.
Slavko: Of course it should be extended to marriage and adoption. For us, we identify Greece and homosexuality so closely that it is very surprising that it has taken so long when Greece is one of the oldest of members of the European Union.
Many times people say: "The Greek society is not ready!" Are they right or not?
Perseus: It seems to me that society is not only ready, but also is very receptive. Instead, politicians have confused things with undue entanglements and acting with the logic of the political cost, when they should be leading. The politicians must finally understand that they are losing more votes by trying to satisfy the most conservative parts of society.
Slavko: It seems to me this is a joke when I hear it from the Greeks. See what happens at the Belgrade Pride, where most poeple are afraid to go, and here what happens at Thessaloniki Pride. Here, the entire town goes down and it becomes a great celebration. Ask me if Serbia is not ready to say yes, but Greece? Every summer I have gay friends from Serbia and Bosnia, who come here to live summer romances. Somewhat this was my own case. In Greece the church plays a role and the fact that the Church is strongly able to influence the public. But just as the Church says other things that people chose not to follow, such as fasting or abstinence from sex before marriage, why stick to their thoughts on same-sex relationships?
Did you ever think to go abroad, in order to formalize your relationship there?
Perseus: We had thought of this, but this presented many practical difficulties, because neither of us were ever a resident in another country. And after all, we should not have to resort to such measures. We have the right as citizens to be treated equally by the country in which we live.
Slavko: A friend had suggested that we go to a European country where marriage is extended to same-sex couples. For a time we were thinking of doing so, but to tell the truth, we did not like the idea and because like Perseus I believed that things would change in Greece.
What is the law in Serbia as it applies to same-sex couples?
Slavko: There is no recognition of same-sex couples in Serbia and in 2006, the country took a one step backwards. At that time, marriage was defined in the Constitution as a union between people of different sexes, thereby excluding same-sex couples. Since 2014, there have been valid civil partnerships in Croatia, and so many Serbs who have Croatian citizenship obtain civil partnerships there, but they are not recognized in Serbia.
How did your families react when they learned of your civil partnership?
Perseus: They weren't condescending, because they knew the practical difficulties of non-recognition of our coexistence.
Slavko: My family was happy for me, because they know of other acquaintances who did so in Sweden and Switzerland, but also because they knew the problems that solved related to my staying in Greece with Perseus.
In your opinion, should homosexual couples raise children?
Perseus: This must become our right. Since some people want to do so, discrimination cannot be allowed because of their sexual orientation. Moreover many gay couples already have children. The important point is that these children should have the institutional protections just the same as those of heterosexual couples.
Slavko: Parents can be good or bad, but this has nothing to do with whether they are straight or gay. Many people say, "But they would be laughed at in school for having gay or lesbian parents." Well, there are many ways to discredit someone. We must fight against prejudice and stigma.
Do you think that a homosexual couple can give a child everything he needs to grow up?
Perseus: What a child needs to grow is love and a stable environment and this is what it means to be parents, regardless of whether they are heterosexual or same-sex.
Slavko: Of course, a homosexual couple can give a child everything it needs, and sometimes more than a heterosexual couple, for two reasons: First, because a same-sex couple is a living example of diversity and acceptance and, secondly, because a homosexual couple can not have a child from unwanted pregnancy, a child of a same-sex couple knows that they were wanted and their parents took a decision to love and care for them.
Do you think it would be more difficult to be parents a homosexual couple?
Perseus: If so, it is only because social conditions are more difficult. They need to help their child understand that their family is just as equivalent to that of others that have a dad and a mom.
Slavko: Life is generally more difficult for same-sex couples because of homophobia in society. But as parents same-sex couples do not need to do more than to show unconditional love for their children.
Have you thought that you'd like to have a child?
Perseus: Not really.
Slavko: I do not think I'm in the right phase of life yet to become a dad. At least not right now.
Would you prefer to adopt children or become parents through a surrogate mother?
Perseus: Hypothetically speaking, if we decided that we wanted children, I would prefer adoption.
Slavko: And I would prefer adoption as well. Parenthood does not require genetics, but only love and the role we'd each perform as a parent.
The Kant wrote that "The freedom of one stops where it begin to affect the boundaries of the freedom of others." Do you feel "free" now?
Perseus: I feel physically freer than before. For the government to determine whom I have the right to establish a relationship with was definitely a violation of my freedoms. By contrast, the extension of civil partnerships to all does not restrict the freedom of the heterosexual.
Slavko: It is my right to freely develop my personality with any partner I want, without imposing any other norms.
Translated and edited from People Magazine Greece
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